When to stall against an unclear pivot.

  • March 25, 2014 at 3:54 pm #645
    Sean Prichard

    In this scenario a thrower walks a disc up to the sideline (or break mark) after an OB pull. Due to a lack of actual pivoting, and the lack of a check, it is very difficult to tell when the pivot is set, rather than the thrower just evaluating the offense. Consequently, the mark often is late to start the stall, as the thrower has already been in a position to throw for a couple seconds.

    Is there a better solution to know when to stall? Can it be as soon as the foot steps in bounds?

    March 25, 2014 at 6:29 pm #646
    Florian Pfender

    best practice for the marker would be to point at the spot where they expect the pivot. If the thrower disagrees, they should point to a different spot. Whenever the thrower sets their foot (or any other body part) there, you should start stalling.

    And now for what the rules say (to be used if above was not done):
    the rules require the thrower to approach the pivot spot with at least walking speed. Thus, it is fair to assume that the thrower has set their pivot the moment they contact the playing field *and* have stopped walking. Remember, the fair assumption inherent in the rules is that no one intentionally violates the rules, and that everyone knows the rules. Stopping before the thrower reaches he pivot would be such an intentional violation, which the rules say you do not need to take into consideration during normal play.

    March 25, 2014 at 6:40 pm #647
    Benji Heywood

    9.3. The marker may only start and continue a stall count when:
    9.3.1. The disc is live (unless specified otherwise);

    By 8.1.2, the disc is dead:

    After the pull or after a turnover when the disc must be carried to the location of the correct pivot point, until a pivot is established

    So the disc becomes live when they reach the pivot point.

    You may stall as soon they establish a pivot in the correct place. After an OB pull or OB turnover, there exists a correct place where they should establish a pivot, even though the disc is currently elsewhere, and once their foot reaches that point you may initiate the stall count.

    It’s possible that there may be some disagreement about the exact location where the pivot should be established, but this can be covered by the travel rule (if the thrower establishes the pivot in what the defence considers to be the wrong place) and can usually be avoided if the defender indicates in advance (by pointing or similar) where they expect the pivot to be established.

    The offence is not permitted to reach the pivot point and then ‘evaluate the offence’. You may start the stall count.


You must be logged in to reply to this topic.