[Not Public]

This is something I thought was very basic but have been told differently so I’d like an interpretation:

When there is a turnover in the central zone when can the marker begin the stall count?

I believed the marker had to wait until the disc was picked up off the ground before starting the stall count, but was told that since the pivot was established (citing rule 9.3.2) that the marker could begin stalling before the disc was picked up because they were within 3 meters of the pivot point.

I countered that there was no “thrower” yet since the disc was not in the possession of a player, and that the “pivot point” in rule 9.3.2 was not established.

Note this is not a question about a delay of game call, but just when the stall count may begin on a run of the mill turnover in the central zone. All my research on the topic only turns up more complex issues than this, which is why I’m a bit perplexed.

[Benji Heywood]

Given that the pivot should be established at the spot occupied by the disc (13.9, 13.7.1) it is impossible to set a pivot before picking up a disc in the central zone.

Furthermore, there is indeed no thrower in your example, only an intended thrower, and so 9.3.2 does not apply. From the definitions, the thrower is:

The offensive player in possession of the disc, or the player who has just thrown the disc prior to when the result of the throw has been determined.

No player is in possession, and the previous thrower is not still the thrower, as the result of the pass has been determined (turnover). There is no thrower.

Only under delay of game rules could you stall before the disc is picked up in your scenario.