[Robert Jablko]

We have a discussion about the correct call, when a marker starts / continues stalling while moving out or not being within 3m of the thrower.

We know that this is a violation of 9.3.2.

• 9.3. The marker may only start and continue a stall count when:
• 9.3.2. They are within three (3) metres of the thrower; and

We also know that in case of moving out of 3m the stall count must restart with one (9.4.) , but of course only in accordance to 9.3. (live, within 3m, legally positioned).

• 9.4. If the marker moves more than three (3) metres from the thrower, or a different player becomes the marker, the stall count must be restarted at one (1).

What troubles us is the fact, that this situation is NOT mentioned in the “Fast Count” Infraction (18.1.1.1) or other Marking Infraction (18.1.1.)

[b]So the main question is, whether this is an infraction or a violation?
[/b]

This is such a simple situation / question, but there are so many things to consider:

VIOLATION
Since not mentioned otherwise a violation of 9.3.2. is a Violation. Play stops and we have to continue with a check-in.

We think that is correct, but also problematic, because the rules indicate that we don’t want a stoppage of play in cases of Marking breaches.

• 15.2. A breach of the rules regarding a Marking or Travel breach is an infraction. Infractions do not stop play.

Hence, we think that it should be possible to call a “Fast Count” in this situation in order to continue play.

WHY?

Direct Violations of 9.3.1. are also subject to a “Fast Count”-Infraction.

• 9.3. The marker may only start and continue a stall count when:
• 9.3.1. The disc is live (unless specified otherwise);

For example. When I walk to the brick mark the disc is dead. No Turnover is possible. When the marker already starts the stall count I may call a “Fast Count”. (18.1.1.1.1.)

• 18.1.1.1. “Fast Count” – the marker:
• 18.1.1.1.1. starts the stall count before the disc is live,

Although the disc is dead, I may call an infraction in order not to stop play. Similarly I should be able to call a “Fast Count” when the marker is not within 3m.

BUT THAT LEADS TO ANOTHER PROBLEM

When the marker moves out of the 3m range and continues the stall count, we have two problems.
1. the distance (3m, 9.3.2.)
2. the stall-count (has to restart at one, 9.4.) once 1. is fixed

While 9.4. indicates that the stall count must be restarted at 1. 18.1.1.1.4. indicates that after a Stall-Count-Infration the stall count has to be dropped by two, same is true for other marking infractions (18.1.3.)

So the problem is, that if the marker is not aware of the 3m violation, he will only drop the stall count by two. Following 18.1.3. that would be correct! But in violation of 9.4. this would be another stall count infraction (18.1.1.1.5.), which will most likely lead to confusion and contest by the defence. That is really difficult.

[b][size=4]So we ask you: What is the correct call / best practice in this situation? “Fast Count” or “Violation”?
[/size][/b]

[Florian Pfender]

This is a violation. If you don’t want to call “violation” and stop play, say “you are/were outside 3m” (not a call, just a friendly warning). If the marker then continues counting higher then “1” after getting within 3m, you can call “fast count” without stopping play due to

18.1.1.1.5. does not start the stall count from the correct number.

Technically, we should write “start or continue” here.

[Efren Cornelio O. Baconawa II]

hello, i’d like to add some more to this… This situation happened to one of my teammates recently. let’s use team a and team b… Team A intercepted the disc, made fast short passes to the endzone, and when team A is near the endzone, player A(who’s holding the disc) stopped the momentum. Team B tried to catch up. Player B started counting even though he’s still at the back of player A, trying to catch up. When Player B got in front of player A, player B was already at stall 6, giving player A 4 seconds to pass.

What i think is that, player A was not able to hear the counting of player B. But even so, 3 meters is a very short distance to cover so i suppose that player B took advantage of the fast pace of the game and decided count as fast as he can because he thought that he won’t be caught.

Am i right?? or what??

Question is:
1. aside from the 3m distance from the mark, when is a player legally positioned?? (I suppose that 3m is a lot of space. I also think that the committee should not use meters, maybe steps would be good like 3 steps from the thrower, something like that. something that would give precise measurement. maybe use the disc starting from the pivot point. :D)
2. if the thrower did not hear the stall counts 1-5, and the stall count that he was able to hear was at stall 6, can he call fast count due to inaudibility of the count??

(english is not my native language. sorry for my grammar. xD)