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November 24, 2017 at 4:50 pm #1502
Hugh Kinnear
ParticipantSay an offensive player runs into the outstretched arms of a defensive player (not while making a play on the disc, just generally running about) what would the correct continuation be?
Is this a violation by “12.10.Players may not use their arms or legs to obstruct the movement of opposing players.” I was wondering if the defense could argue they were using their arms to potentially stop a disc flying through (common in zone defence).
Also the definition of legitimate position seems somewhat relevant “The stationary position established by a player’s body excluding extended arms and legs that can be avoided by all opposing players when time and distance are taken into account” which seems to look unkindly on outstreched arms (admittedly this definiton is only used in 12.2 where it is relevant to catching”.
I was also wondering if the offensive player could call and indirect foul.
In conclusion, who has fouled who and, is it actually a foul (or perhaps just a violation) and how should play restart?
November 30, 2017 at 3:54 am #1503Rueben Berg
KeymasterUnfortunately the rules are not crystal clear on this issue – hopefully that’s something we can address in the next update (in 2021).
You could definitely call a violation if someone is using their arms to obstruct your movement.
But if you run into those arms, the questions is obviously who has fouled who, if it is even a foul?
When we talk about fouls, we generally talk about the idea of initiating contact.
And initiate contact is deemed to mean “Any movement towards a legally positioned opponent …that results in unavoidable non-incidental contact”. The defender is not legally positioned, so the offence has not initiated contact. So you could say there was no foul at all.It obviously becomes more complicated if the defender claims they were trying to block a pass, and not to obstruct.
So the likely outcomes are this (for a call before the throw):
– violation called before contact – stoppage and discussion
– foul called after contact by D – O can contest based on the fact that the defender was illegally positioned. D can either retract the call, or O can contest the call – only difference is the stall count.Hope that helps
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