Moving to the correct pivot point – fairly!

  • May 27, 2013 at 4:46 am #382

    I recently observed the following scenario:

    Team A loses possession of the disc at the back of the endzone they are attacking. The intended thrower from team B walks to pick up the disc, his marker stays with him in case the thrower decides to set his pivot where the disc is. The thrower picks up the disc and walks, slowly, toward the front of the endzone with his defender moving with him. The thrower suddenly accelerates past the marker to the line, sets his pivot and fires off an unmarked throw.

    This scenario would seem similar to:

    Team B pulls to Team A but the disc is thrown out of the field. The intended thrower from Team A moves to collect the disc and so his marker follows him to the sideline. Before the thrower picks up the disc he signals for the Brick, picks up the disc, sprints past his mark to the brick point and fires off an unmarked throw.

    Rule 8.6 “After a turnover, the team that has gained possession of the disc must continue play without delay. The intended thrower must move at walking pace or faster to directly retrieve the disc and establish a pivot” seems to permit this and so the defenders simply need to be more vigilant or is this a SOTG issue that the captains should discuss.


    May 27, 2013 at 4:59 am #383
    Rueben Berg

    Both these things are allowed – the defenders simply need to be more vigilant.

    February 24, 2015 at 5:56 pm #831
    Julian Bushe

    Another question on the same topic:

    Is there an equivalent of 8.6. for the pull? I can’t find anything in the rules that keeps the intended thrower to retrieve the disc and bring it to the pivot slower than walking pace after a pull that hits the ground without being contacted by an offensive player.

    Of course, in most cases delaying the game this way after the pull is a disadvantage for the offense, but would it be within the rules?

    February 24, 2015 at 7:40 pm #832
    Florian Pfender

    The rules are unclear if the pull is considered an automatic turn over or not. Several places would say “yes”, and others say “no”.
    If one interprets as yes, then no problem, 8.6 applies.

    If one interprets as no, then 8.6 does not apply, and the defense can not make a call other than “stop being an ass”. Clearly, the intention and spirit of the rules is to not allow unnecessary delays — looking for loopholes like this is being an ass.

    We should probably either make it clear that the pull is considered a turn (and a dropped pull a double turn), or modify 8.6 to say “after a turn over or the pull”.

    February 25, 2015 at 2:30 pm #833
    Julian Bushe

    I agree. It’s pretty clear that allowing such delay is not the intention of the rules. I just wondered if it were explicitly stated in the rules.

    I think modifying the rule 8.6. to include the pull would be the easiest adjustment. Making the pull a turnover would mean completly rewriting rule 7 as the receiving team would now start out as Defense instead of Offense. Also 13.11 would collide with 7.9.

    July 1, 2015 at 6:08 am #971
    Alex Pentony Vran

    What is required to establish a pivot point in this situation? Specifically, can the thrower run to the line and throw without slowing down provided a foot is on the line in the correct location throughout the throwing motion? Is there a requirement to slow down to establish a pivot in this situation?

    July 1, 2015 at 6:29 am #972
    Rueben Berg

    The rules aren’t crystal clear on this.

    However rule says that the thrower must maintain contact with the playing field throughout the throwing motion.

    July 1, 2015 at 10:30 am #973
    Alex Pentony Vran

    My interpretation is the disc is dead until the pivot is established. A pivot is established when your foot (or other part of your body) is put in the correct spot on the field of play. Failing to slow down before your foot reaches the correct point can’t be used as a reason to call travel because at this point the disc is dead.

    I can see how in game play it does look like a travel… It doesn’t look quite right but I think it is OK by the rules and therefore not a travel.

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