[Karl Moore]

The mixed season is kicking off in the southern hemisphere and the dangerous play queries have started and while the videos posted on this forum clearly show dangerous play they are normally evidence of high impact which the call is more clear.

I have 4 scenarios to put forward in which (normally only in mixed) a dangerous play call is either made, or discussed at length on the side line.

For the first 3 examples it’s a normal situation where the offence is throwing downfield to space for a cutter. Both O and D players are playing and cutting hard. (Gender should be irrelevant for this discussion as the rules don’t change based on gender of players)

1)D player stops from making a bid on the disk and a calls a violation stating that they stopped to avoid contact, pass is complete
2)O player stops from making a bid on the disk and a calls a violation stating that they stopped to avoid contact, pass is incomplete
3)O and D both stop, the pass is incomplete. O wants to call a violation as they feel that they stopped bidding on the disc to avoid contact
4)D lays out, no contact is made between the players, the pass is incomplete. O claims the layout was dangerous even though no contact was made and the play was over before O could react (happen when the layout comes from behind)

I consider myself well versed in the offsetting call, but that requires contact and the dangerous play requires reasonable grounds for making the call and “Reckless disregard for the safety of fellow players”

Interpretations state “Dangerous Play fouls can be called before an event to avoid a potential collision e.g. a defender runs/layouts in a way that an accident would occur if the offence were to continue. When this occurs it is correct to not make a play on the disc & to call a ‘dangerous play’ foul.

Players calling a Dangerous Play foul before a potential incident need to have reasonable grounds for doing so. They should actually be able to see the on-coming player and have some reason to believe that player will not avoid contact – this could include a previous history of that player to not avoid contact.”
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The above comment needs to be read in its entirety, and not just the first paragraph as I find a lot of people do. There needs to be reasonable grounds for making the call, dangerous play is a harsh call on a player, most of us would be upset to be accused of playing dangerously.

Personally, I like to blame the thrower for putting the disc into a spot that invites/creates a situation where significant contact could happen..

In the 4 examples above, I don’t think that Dangerous play is the correct call as it doesn’t fit the criteria. There aren’t reasonable grounds to assume that the players won’t avoid contact especially is the player does not have any history of dangerous play.

Some clarity please 🙂

Thanks in advance

[Karl Moore]

there is good discussion here: http://rules.wfdf.org/discussions/interpretations/22-17-1-dangerous-play-fouls-and-field-of-vision

But the same questions keep coming up around a player claiming they felt there was going to be contact adn the defender getting upset as they say they can make a bid and avoid contact and don’t appreciate the dangerous play call.

I apologize if it appears I’m rehashing the same old queries…

[Bruno Gravato]

Just a small correction… “dangerous play” is a foul not a violation…
So if the call is due to dangerous play, the player should call a foul, not a violation.

Bruno

[Karl Moore]

I used violation as that’s the call to make when you know that you want to call something but you are unsure what it is. In theory you are then educated as to what the correct call is and everyone learns 🙂

[Benji Heywood]

I’m not sure the questions are phrased in a complete way. We need more info I think.

E.g. 1)

D player stops from making a bid on the disk and a calls a violation stating that they stopped to avoid contact, pass is complete

‘Stopping to avoid contact’ is correct behaviour, and if the opponent has legitimately got there in front of you such that you can’t layout safely, then there is no dangerous play call. The definition of a foul is that you initiate contact, meaning that your opponent could not avoid you. So if you CAN avoid them you should stop. It would be YOUR dangerous play if you could avoid contact and choose not to.

The point of a dangerous play call is that YOU could get there first, but you have reason to believe that your opponent will not respect his own duty to pull out of the situation. To call DP in advance of the play occurring, you need to be confident that
– you would ‘reserve the space’ first
– that your opponent could only become involved by initiating significant contact
and also you must have reason to believe that they will do so.

So the question we need to answer for each of your first three scenarios is something like ‘If both players committed fully, who would have reserved the space first?’

You can’t call DP just because you stop to avoid contact, but because you stop to avoid /dangerous/ contact. And by definition, the person who first reserves the space is not dangerous, since the other player is at that point able to pull out. So only the person coming in second can be accused of dangerous play.

From the interpretations:

If two players have the same space reserved at the same time and contact occurs,
whoever caused the conflict of reservations (i.e. whoever last moved so that their
reserved space clashed with the other players reserved space – usually the player
who got the reservation last) is guilty of the foul.

I don’t see any reason that wouldn’t apply to dangerous play fouls also. If you’re sure that you could reserve the space, and also confident that the opponent will not respect that reservation but rather initiate contact, then you may call dangerous play.

So:
1) It depends on who reserved the space first. If D had the chance to reserve the space first but pulled out because they believed the O were about to do something dangerous, then fair call; if they pulled out because they couldn’t get to the disc without contacting a legitimately positioned O player then no call.
2) Same as 1), but in reverse.
3) This is potentially a dangerous play call, in either direction. If D could have got there first but had reason to believe O would bid, they may stop and call it (even though in the end O didn’t bid). Similarly, if O could have got there but expected a dangerous bid from the D, they may call it. If both players pull out and call dangerous play (presumably because it’s close enough that both think they could reserve the space first), then it would be an offsetting foul.

Your scenario 4) is not dangerous play, in my opinion. No contact occurred, and the lack of contact was not caused by any adjustment the offence made, so the D has made a clean attempt. You could say something like ‘It could have been dangerous if I had…’ but the defender could equally argue ‘I took that into account and could see you weren’t going to.’ I suppose, perhaps, that a play that appeared slightly reckless could be taken into account in future dangerous play calls, but there’s nothing in that particular bid which warrants any action.