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Very common scenario:
Someone calls “pick”, thrower doesn’t hear it and then throws (call is before the throw)
The throw is bad and falls to the ground. (pick did not affect the play)16.1 states “Whenever a foul or violation call is made, play stops immediately and no turn over is possible.”
So under this assumption, the play should go back (how things were in 2009 rules)However 16.3 states “Regardless of when a call is made, if the players involved from both teams agree that the foul, violation or call did not affect the outcome, the play stands.”
Well, the play was not affected by the call, all players agree to that so it should stand. However, “No turn over is possible”, so this seems to be a contradiction.
I understand how it is supposed to work if a pick is called as players are throwing, but if it is before the throw, then this wording is very confusion and, in my opinion, contradictory. Help me out?
16.3 is designed to override 16.1, but only in the instances where the foul, violation or call did not affect the outcome.
This also applies to situations where the thrower is fouled in the act of throwing, but the pass goes directly to the intended receiver who drops an easy pass. In that situation the turnover should stand.
Then the wording is very confusing. 16.1 should not read “no turnover is possible” if a turnover is indeed possible. Also in the interactive rules it states that this is a difference between wfdf and usau rules because in usau rules it only matters when the throer recognizes the call, but with 16.3 as you describe it, this is pretty much the same exact thing as usau rules with the only difference that a player may claim that they stopped playing due to the call and that affected play. Am I right about that?
You could make the same argument that 16.2 is also a contradiction of 16.1.
However, 16.1 starts with the word “However” which is implying that 16.1 doesn’t always apply and sets out when this is the case. Similarly, 16.3 starts with the word “Regardless” and goes on to describe another situation where 16.1 doesn’t apply.
Just like all the parts of the rules, they cannot solely be read in isolation and need to be read within the context of other parts of the rules. This is done to avoid unnecessary duplication in the rules and thus keep these as short as possible.
this is a difference between wfdf and usau rules because in usau rules it only matters when the throer recognizes the call, but with 16.3 as you describe it, this is pretty much the same exact thing as usau rules with the only difference that a player may claim that they stopped playing due to the call and that affected play
Correct. In USAU if the thrower makes a pass after a pick call, and it is turnover, the turnover stands regardless of the call affecting the play or not. This is not the case in WFDF.
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