[Fergus Cuthill]

I think there is room for improvement on the wording of when a stall count can start after a turnover. I’ve been involved in several discussions around whether the stall count can begin when a player reaches the disc or after they have picked up the disc. While the difference shouldn’t be more than a second or two, it’s still a source of unnecessary confusion and conflict.

Relevant rules:
8.1. Play is ‘dead’, and no turnover is possible:
8.1.4. After a disc hits the ground, until possession is established by the appropriate team
9.3. The marker may only start and continue a stall count when:
9.3.1. Play is live, or until a pivot is established after a turnover

Relevant Definitions:
Pivot: “… player establishes a pivot point by placing, or keeping, a particular part of their body at a specific point, which they intend to use as their pivot point…”
Possession of the disc: “…A player can also establish possession when a disc that has already hit the ground is picked up, or is given to them, after a turnover, pull, or stoppage…”

The definition of pivot makes no mention of possession of the disc and so the most literal interpretation of 9.3.1 is that play can start at the moment you place a foot next to the disc (play is live OR pivot foot established -> FALSE OR TRUE -> TRUE). It would seem strange however that you could initiate a stall count on a player who is not in possession of the disc and when play is “dead” outisde the provisions in 8.5.

Personally, I think it is clearer and more intuitive if the stall can only be initiated at the point the disc is picked up. With that leaning in mind I would suggest amending either 9.3.1 or the pivot definition to something along the lines of:
9.3.1. Play is live, or until an offensive player takes possession of the disc and establishes a pivot after a turnover
pivot definition: A player in possession of the disc establishes a pivot point by…

It might also serve to separate the statements in 9.3.1 as it would highlight the “live” state (maybe adding a note in the annotations too)

If the intent is that the stall count can start on placement of the players foot, I think there at least needs to be something in the annotations to clearly state that this is the case.

[amaury]

Pivots are only defined for the thrower, and you can’t be the thrower unless you have the disc in hand.