Clarify when stall count can start after turnover

  • June 12, 2024 at 7:01 pm #5704
    Fergus Cuthill

    I think there is room for improvement on the wording of when a stall count can start after a turnover. I’ve been involved in several discussions around whether the stall count can begin when a player reaches the disc or after they have picked up the disc. While the difference shouldn’t be more than a second or two, it’s still a source of unnecessary confusion and conflict.

    Relevant rules:
    8.1. Play is ‘dead’, and no turnover is possible:
    8.1.4. After a disc hits the ground, until possession is established by the appropriate team
    9.3. The marker may only start and continue a stall count when:
    9.3.1. Play is live, or until a pivot is established after a turnover

    Relevant Definitions:
    Pivot: “… player establishes a pivot point by placing, or keeping, a particular part of their body at a specific point, which they intend to use as their pivot point…”
    Possession of the disc: “…A player can also establish possession when a disc that has already hit the ground is picked up, or is given to them, after a turnover, pull, or stoppage…”

    The definition of pivot makes no mention of possession of the disc and so the most literal interpretation of 9.3.1 is that play can start at the moment you place a foot next to the disc (play is live OR pivot foot established -> FALSE OR TRUE -> TRUE). It would seem strange however that you could initiate a stall count on a player who is not in possession of the disc and when play is “dead” outisde the provisions in 8.5.

    Personally, I think it is clearer and more intuitive if the stall can only be initiated at the point the disc is picked up. With that leaning in mind I would suggest amending either 9.3.1 or the pivot definition to something along the lines of:
    9.3.1. Play is live, or until an offensive player takes possession of the disc and establishes a pivot after a turnover
    pivot definition: A player in possession of the disc establishes a pivot point by…

    It might also serve to separate the statements in 9.3.1 as it would highlight the “live” state (maybe adding a note in the annotations too)

    If the intent is that the stall count can start on placement of the players foot, I think there at least needs to be something in the annotations to clearly state that this is the case.

    June 12, 2024 at 9:14 pm #5706

    Pivots are only defined for the thrower, and you can’t be the thrower unless you have the disc in hand.

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Topic Tags