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First, thanks for getting putting this rules site online and thanks, Rueben, for taking the time to help people understand the rules better.
My question is about calling dangerous plays/avoiding contact and the role the field of vision of the player has. Namely, this has come up several times in three basic forms:
- Team A slightly overthrows a strike pass up the sideline and the cutting handler runs after it towards her attacking end zone, watching the disc and preparing to grab it when in reach. Team B’s defender sees the play develop and poaches off her player in the vertical stack, moving diagonally towards the disc away from her defending end zone / in the direction of the thrower to make the interception or defend the disc.
- Team A throws a deep down the sideline to a streaking, uncovered cutter. The throw starts to tail and floats back to the center of the field so Team A’s receiver also starts to curve towards the center of the field, still running, but looking back and reading the disc. Team B has a defender who was covering a different player’s deep cut on far side of the field. The defender sees the deep play developing, and moves off his player, towards the thrower and the disc and away from his defending end zone, to defend/intercept the pass.
- Team B has cutter who had gone deep, but is now coming back in on a long in-cut into space, so a long, slow pass is thrown up the open side. Team A’s defender, having followed her cutter’s fake to the break side, notices the play steps horizontally back towards the open side, perpendicular to the field of play, watching the disc and getting ready to intercept/defend it.
So my basic question is: in these three situations, who has the responsibility to pull up and avoid contact? In the event that contact occurs, who can/should call a foul? Is either player in the right claiming dangerous play?
In every situation, Team A’s player is moving to make a legitimate play on the disc (from a point closer to the origin of the throw) but has a restricted field of vision due to the changing or sudden circumstances of the play and may not see the approach of or be able to avoid Team B’s player (who will wind up occupying space that was empty when Team A’s player last saw it).
On the other hand, Team B’s player, either as a defender or attacker, has a better position to read the disc (i.e., moving directly towards its expected destination instead of running along with the disc waiting for it to be reachable) but is more acutely aware of Team A’s player and the possible resulting collision/contact.
From what I understand, if Team A’s player is running blindly, even if they have been actively making a play in the disc for longer, he/she would be at fault in the event of a collision with Team B’s player, since Team B’s player may already be stationed at or arriving to the disc’s destination.
But at the same time, it seems that Team B’s player may be obligated to avoid the inevitable contact if they seem Team A’s player moving to play the disc and he/she (i.e., Team B’s player) realizes that there’s no way to make a play on the disc without colliding with or be collided into by Team A’s player.
I’ve seen instances of all three situations where one player or the other gives up on the disc, clearly worried about the possibility of their opponent not stopping or not being aware of their presence, and it always leaves an feeling of defeat: I had to give up on the pass because I sensed that the defender probably would have collided with me attempting to defend the disc, so the disc went uncaught and now the defender’s team has the disc; or, I had to give up my chance to defend the disc because the other team’s player was making a blind play on it and wouldn’t have avoided me, so now they have the disc in an advantageous position.
I’ve also seen instances where both players try to make the play, and the resulting contact angers one or the other, with accusations of dangerous play being made against both parties.
So how could this be interpreted? Or does it have to be situation by situation?
Sorry about the length of the question, it was tough to illustrate … :unsure:
It is pretty much situation by situation, but these are the key rules that apply in these situations:
12.8. Every player is entitled to occupy any position on the field not occupied by any opposing player, provided that they do not initiate contact in taking such a position.
12.9. All players must attempt to avoid contact with other players, and there is no situation where a player may justify initiating contact. “Making a play for the disc” is not a valid excuse for initiating contact with other players.
17.1.1. Reckless disregard for the safety of fellow players is considered dangerous play and is to be treated as a foul, regardless of whether or when contact occurs. This rule is not superseded by any other rule.
17.8.1. A Blocking Foul occurs when a player takes a position that a moving opponent will be unable to avoid and contact results.
The Interpretations for these sections provide additional details about these rules, but the basic idea is this:
– If you are in a position that an opponent could reasonably avoid, and you strongly feel like someone is about to crash into you, you can call “Dangerous Play” and then get out of the way.
– It is not reasonable to run without looking where you are going and then complain that you ran into someone, unless that person moved in front of you at the last moment, in a way that still would have initiated contact even if you had been looking.
Note: These plays generally result in contested calls because the people involved in these collisions have a very poor perspective on what happened. Teammates who did have a good perspective should provide this perspective, even if it means telling your teammate that they have made the wrong call.
OK, thanks for your quick response. That sounds about right, I guess. A lot of times it’s tough to assume responsibility for contact if you feel like you were hit by someone with better perspective of the play (when you may have in fact been running blindly). By this interpretation, the correct thing to do is to risk losing the disc by taking a moment to assess the surroundings and ensure your new path/actions won’t take you into another player.
One more clarification: at what point does a player’s prior actions/path establish a right to a space in further along their path?
For example, in the case of a floaty hammer to a stationary receiver. The poaching starts running towards the play and when he is about 3-4 steps away, the receiver realizes he’s misread the disc slightly, and takes a small step forward (or even just reaches their arms out) and receives the disc. At this point, the defender is 2 steps away and running at full speed. Does the defender have to avoid contact at all costs (despite being headed to the right spot already), or is the receiver making a dangerous play by readjusting to catch the disc (even though he’s essentially stationary and perhaps being unaware of the approaching defender)?
From the receiver’s point of view, they should be able to reach out and grab the disc since they’ll catch it first and it seems like the defender’s all out attempt is reckless since it can’t account for the last second adjustment. From the defender’s point of view, they read the disc correctly from the start and have already established their path to the spot when the receiver makes a sudden movement.
That’s it, then. Thanks again!
By this interpretation, the correct thing to do is to risk losing the disc by taking a moment to assess the surroundings and ensure your new path/actions won’t take you into another player.
Correct
The poaching starts running towards the play and when he is about 3-4 steps away, the receiver realizes he’s misread the disc slightly, and takes a small step forward and receives the disc. At this point, the defender is 2 steps away and running at full speed.
It is a foul by the receiver if they have moved in a way that the defender is unable to reasonably avoid.
It is a foul by the defender if the receiver moved into that position early enough that the defender could reasonably have avoided them.
It is a foul by both players if they both adjust their path in a way that causes unavoidable non incidental contact (in which case the disc goes back to the thrower).
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